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Freedom, prohibition, and the economy

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8 posts
postapokalyptic

Posts : 20
ONLINE

Posted on Feb 27, 2009

Guess I'll try to stir some shit up in here. :o)
 
So, over the last year or two (or three) I have pretty much stopped drinking alcohol. If I'm at a bar or something, I'm not opposed to getting inebriated, but I guess I've just realized that the drug doesn't do much for me overall.
 
Over that time, I have found that I prefer (insert prefered call name for marijuana here). There are plenty of reasons, but most of those are in line with any pro-pot articles you can find on the web.
 
With a dozen states already legalizing it for medicinal purposes, and California considering levying a tax on it, the end of marijuana prohibition seems closer every day. California's medicinal marijuana industry alone generates $14 billion annually. And keep in mind...that is only California, and ONLY accounts for the legalized sales of the substance. It does NOT account for the much, much larger underground market. And considering that almost every person I have met in Cali smokes, you can imagine just how large that market is.
 
For the most part marijuana is easily accessible to anyone interested, so the fact that it is illegal is essentially only having 3 major impacts: 1) The product cannot be taxed, 2) Individuals are incarcerated for posession and selling, resulting in 3) preventing them from contributing to society and increasing legal and prison costs on taxpayers.
 
By removing prohibition on the substance, we eliminate the vast strain on our prisons, return productive citizens to the work force, and create a huge tax generating sector. This also creates an revenue generating industry not just for citizens, but also tourists, and a large number of immediate jobs. It allows customers to be educated and for regulation to help protect the safety of consumers. Oh, and we can stop wasting taxpayer dollars on those ridiculous drug-free commercials.
 
Now, let me make something clear: I didn't start smoking until I was around 25, and it has only been in the last few years where I have started smoking on a weekly basis. As an individual, I couldn't care less if it is legalized. In California I can qualify for a medicinal license, and in both Cali and NY the substance is easily accessible. I put this forward because it is a silly and antiquated set of laws that hurts the country I care for.
 
And for those of you who agree with this, I strongly encourage you to talk about this with your friends. It's a change that is right around the corner, and all it takes now is the courage for people to speak up for it.

lakia
"PC Partyman"

Posts : 3967
ONLINE

Posted on Feb 27, 2009

It should be legalized. Personally i have no issue with weed. I myself do not smoke it though. I could care less about all the medicinal "values" of marijuana, its not of any concern to me. I find it to be relatively harmless. You walk into a place with a bunch of people smoking its quite different from walking into an old fashioned house party. The people smoking will off, you say no and 99.9% of the time they say "alright" and dont bother you again about it. On the other hand you walk into the house party and everyone is trying to shove booze down your throat.
 
But if i get to enjoy my bourbon, scotch, and good micros, people who want to smoke good weed shouldnt have to worry about the legal hassels and have access to it.
 
I do feel though that weed, just like alcohol, if abused can cause just as much harm to your life and health. Legalize it, tax it, do what ever. Its rediculous people are incarcerated for it. And posty, here in washington you can also get your medicinal marijuana card and grow as well.
You know youre getting old when your ol lady says "honey lets run
up stairs and make love" and you say "sorry i cant do both!"
For True Since 1984


hall3p11

Posts : 198
ONLINE

Posted on Feb 28, 2009

Abuse of Marijuana.... What the hell is that?  Flushing it down the toilet?  I would call that abuse.  Smoking too much?  Okay, you could put yourself into a stupor and not have enough motivation to do anything.  On the other hand, if you get a different strain (and in Cali where you've got shops you can walk into and get whatever you want) the stuff gives you energy instead of making you lazy.
Back to the point.  Wait, there is not point, you're both saying it should be legalized.  I agree.  The only reason I know of that the substance was made illegal (and this is my thought not a documented one) was because the government needed some substance to ban when they lifted the prohibition on booze.
You cannot overdose on marijuana.  It may give you lung cancer (being smoke that you are inhaling and holding into your lungs) but as far as I know, no one has ever done a study on that.  What we do know is that there is no long term effects from smoking weed.  Loss of lung capacity?  Tell that to the guy who rips a 4 foot bong daily and clears it in one breathe.
My thoughts only.  Feel free to rip them apart.


lakia
"PC Partyman"

Posts : 3967
ONLINE

Posted on Feb 28, 2009

Meh let it be legalized. If you feel that anything that alters your state of sobriety cant hurt you, then thats all up to you. I know people that say the same shit about alcohol. Then again i also have friends who have thrown away very good things and bright futures because they would rather be stoned all the time, i also friends who have done the same because they would rather drink all day.
 
Anything inhaled into your body that isnt oxygen can hurt you. Smoke is not healthy. And booze isnt healthy for your liver.
 
Either way, as i said, legalize it.
You know youre getting old when your ol lady says "honey lets run
up stairs and make love" and you say "sorry i cant do both!"
For True Since 1984


tooscoops
"Funny, but.. FIRED!"

Posts : 5027
ONLINE

Posted on Mar 03, 2009

hall!  where have you been?!  christ... haven't seen you for like 4 years!
 
anywho, i've really been cutting back on drinking (the fiance isn't a fan of me smelling like booze, i'm poor, plus, i'm too lazy to go out and not hit on girls)... i keep thinking i need to start soking a bit more, but as a 28 year old, i feel out of the loop with any dealers...
 
ah well... my feelings, weed is fine.  put out some laws on what you can or can't do while under the influence...
haikus are easy
but sometimes they don't make sense
refrigerator


postapokalyptic

Posts : 20
ONLINE

Posted on Mar 24, 2009

Posted by hall3p11
You cannot overdose on marijuana.  It may give you lung cancer (being smoke that you are inhaling and holding into your lungs) but as far as I know, no one has ever done a study on that.  What we do know is that there is no long term effects from smoking weed.  Loss of lung capacity?  Tell that to the guy who rips a 4 foot bong daily and clears it in one breathe.
My thoughts only.  Feel free to rip them apart.
 
There are long term effects. While I, and many others, want to see this legalized, we shouldn't pretend it's a miracle recreational drug.
 
The last study I looked at, which was at least a couple years ago, showed that marijuana consumption in a single average sitting was 3 times as strong as a cigarrette. However, marijuana is also consumed far less frequently than cigarrettes, so in that aspect it is much less of a risk. but the risk is there, and it's something we should be honest about when discussion the lifting of prohibition.
 
It has not been extensively researched, and most of the research that has been done has been clouded by government intervention (a number of studies have not has their findings released because the information was not in line with the message of the law). Getting it legalized will hopefully allow us to become better educated on it.
 
Chances are there will be some additional health concerns, much like everything else out there. But the point isn't to regulate what people do with their lives. The government should be there to provide information and the allow citizens to make their own decisions.

davesc2

Posts : 102
ONLINE

Posted on Mar 24, 2009

well, I haven't really thought about it too much.  Mainly because I don't smoke it.  Don't really drink anymore, either.  Anyway, my warning for all of you is this.  If the gov't legalizes marijuana, look for them to tax the living hell out of it.  Much like they're doing with cigarettes.  The traditional theory being that for some people it will become too expensive and their behavior will have been modified, and for those people that don't care about the price well they've just become the gov't's newest cash cow.
 
My two cents, do with it what you will.
Pain heals, chicks dig scars, glory lasts forever
If someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!!


HATER_PLAYER
"In Your Face"

Posts : 8096
OFFLINE

Posted on Mar 24, 2009

speaking of california and weed.....
 
Pot advocates exhale after AG signals policy shift
 
Medical marijuana users and dispensary owners in California have held their breath for years — fearful they would be targeted for prosecution by the federal government.

They finally exhaled this past week when U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said federal agents will now target marijuana distributors only when they violate both federal and state laws, a departure from the policy of the Bush administration.

It's not seen by many as a move by the Obama administration toward the legalization of marijuana.

However, it could end much of the confusion among state and federal authorities dealing with the mishmash of laws in which cultivating, using and selling pot for medical purposes is allowed by states but outlawed by the federal government.

"This signals, in my mind, a true kind of federalism," said Jody Armour, a law professor at the University of Southern California. "The federal government is allowing states to take chances, to take experiments and see what happens."

California is one of 13 states that allows medical use of marijuana.

Over the past 2 1/2 years, the federal Drug Enforcement Administration has raided at least 80 dispensaries in California, the majority in the Central District that extends from the Central Coast down to Orange County and includes Los Angeles.

Yet criminal charges have only been filed in several of those cases against the biggest distributors accused of breaking both federal and state laws, said Thom Mrozek, spokesman for the U.S. attorney's office in the Central District of California.

"What we have done in all of our narcotic cases is to focus on large-scale traffickers," Mrozek said. "In terms of what happens in the future, the federal government will continue to enforce federal narcotics law."

The confusion was reflected in a case against Charles Lynch, who ran a marijuana dispensary in Morro Bay. Federal prosecutors said he should have known his employees sold marijuana outside his store.

Lynch, 47, was convicted in August of distributing more than 100 kilograms of marijuana. His sentencing is set for Monday; guidelines allow up to 85 years but prosecutors recommended a five-year prison sentence.

Lynch's attorneys will try to persuade Department of Justice officials to drop the case.

"The feds picked the wrong guy," federal public defender Reuven Cohen said. "It's pure fiction that somehow Charlie was not in compliance with state law."

Two of the jurors who convicted Lynch also took issue with the federal prosecution. They wrote letters to U.S. District Judge George Wu asking for leniency, saying they felt they were forced to find him guilty under federal guidelines.

"Because of the instructions we were given regarding that we were to disregard state law, I felt we had no other option but to convict Mr. Lynch," juror Andy Gordon wrote.

Fellow panelist Reza Iranpour called the verdict a "miscarriage of justice" and said Lynch was a victim of "bureaucratic conflict."

Lynch "faces the prospect of being severely punished for trusting misleading laws and regulations," Iranpour wrote.

Medical marijuana advocates say the change in federal policy announced by Holder mirrors the spirit of the 1996 California ballot initiative that made it legal to sell the drug to people with a prescription.

"I think that if nothing else it gives people a sense of optimism that the federal government is going to back off," said James Shaw, director of the Union of Medical Marijuana Patients. "But it's not entirely clear to me if they are going to do that."

Holder didn't specify who would be exempt from future DEA raids. And one federal prosecutor said cases will still be filed against people who violate the law by selling marijuana for non-medicinal purposes and other actions.

"From the type of dispensaries we have seen over the years, it may be anticipated this does not signal an end to federal enforcement actions but instead a refinement," said acting U.S. Attorney Lawrence Brown in Sacramento.

Times have changed, agreed Elliot Katz, a senior member of a Los Angeles-based marijuana collective, but not necessarily for the better.

He recalled walking into a dispensary when he was first issued a medical marijuana card in the mid-1990s and finding that everyone was visibly sick.

These days, marijuana users who have no medical reason to obtain the drug are taking advantage of the system, he said.

"It's up to the doctor or dispensary operator to weed out those people," said Katz, 46, who has AIDS. "The government can do all they want to regulate, but it's up to us to regulate ourselves."

 
good news!

8 posts

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