Being that I like hiking I don't really mess with machines.  Plus I just don't dig the amount of crap they spew.

 

There are a few things that I know you want to look for.  A wider, longer track with deep lugs is a good thing.  You'll be riding and towing in untracked snow so you need something designed for it.  99% of resort snowmobiles are not good for this.

 

If you can get a 4 stroke engine.  You don't have to mix oil into the gas.  It's like a care just fill an oil resevior etc.  Much less pollution.  Just make sure the power is there, the older models had issues with that.  Later generations got it figured out and are just fine if not better than two stroke engines.

 

You will need TWO snowmobiles.  One just isn't going to do it.  They have a knack for breaking down and/or getting stuck at the worst times.  You need to travel in pairs at the very least.  So one of your buds needs to get one or if you got the bucks buy two.  It sucks, but any seasoned sled rider will tell you this is absolutely necessary. 

 

It's also critical that you pay more attention to red flags, changing snow conditions etc.   Warnings that you might be in an unstable area that could avalanche or harder to spot when you can travel so much terrain in such a quick amount of time.  If you get in trouble you could be 20+ miles away from help.  Without a quick recovery or better yet avoidance, that is a death sentence if S&R gets involved.  So make sure you avy eyes are sharp and carry/know how to use the appropriate gear.

I am really new to sledding, actually i just bought one but haven't riding it yet, there is better advice out there but here are some things i have been told. i got a 800 summitx with a 144 track. now I have been told many different things about the track size, some say it should be bigger, some say its a perfect size. i have friends that have sleds with 144 tracks and less power then mine they seem to get them everywhere they want so i went for the 144. longer track and wider track mean more flotation. mines a 2 stroke and you don't mix oil, there is a separate oil reservoir, its oil injected most modern 2 strokes are. oil is hella expensive, about $25 for 4 litter jug of mineral and $50 for synthetic. the reason i got the 2 stroke is they are lighter then a 4 stroke. depending on the model, a equivalent 4 stroke with the same hp is going to be  around 100 lbs more. thats 100lbs more to dig out when it gets stuck. also you notice the extra weight when doubling up, so I have been told. on the flip side of that i have a friend with a 80 hp 4 stroke that says he has hauled 2 people behind his and doubled one at the same time, he did that for one trip and stopped when his belt shredded. 2 stroke engines do require more maintenance, from what I have been told on average you get 5000km out of a 2 stroke before it needs a bottom end rebuild. it all depends how the sleds been driven but just be prepared. 4 strokes are more maintenance free and the engines last longer but, they are harder and more expensive to fix. carry a spare belt and plugs, if you break down your completely fucked unless your on the road. the only way to get them out some times is to heli them, that cost my friend $600 last year. hope that helped, there is a snowmobile colonies but there isn't much traffic on there so i will drop a link to the competition http://www.snowest.com/

 

there are a lot of riders that know a bunch more then me on there.

 

one more thing, carry extra gas. sleds get shitty gas mileage. newer ones get better mileage then older ones but still not good.

Posted by Killclimbz
I had not read that you no longer need to mix oil with your gas with two strokes.  That is definitely a good thing.

 

You don't HAVE too, but I have heard of the automatic mixers can be questionable, so some guys just mix anyways. I'd still go with a 4 stroke because of the smell, and pollution( air and noise), of a 2.. I like the thump thump better then the braaaaap

 

I know nothing about snowmobiles, so take that for what it is worth.

 

I wouldn't mind one as an approach tool, but I don't know about actually using them for getting up what I want to ride all teh time. Kind of takes why I go there in the first place... but then again, I mostly go to wilderness areas, so it doesn't matter anyways. Be kind of cool to do snowmachine shuttles every now and then. I plan on trying too get up to abuse ben's once or twice this winter...

 

 

 

 

Oh, I am not hating on sleds or anything. If that's what makes you happy, go for it.

 

There is one thing I don't like about recreational motorsports... And something for you to keep in mind. The prep, and loading and unloading. Then you need to have a decent tow vehicle and or trailer. It all adds up to alot of time and money, and work. If you are a bit of a gear head, then it probably doesn't matter. Some people like to tinker with engines and such just as much as tuning a snowboard.

 

You should send a comment towards rick. Tha's his SN here, and he sleds a quite a bit. In fact, we all chipped in and bought him one

 

Nice shot of the storms in the distance off of Evans.

I do a bunch of snowmobile assisted back country.

 

FOR ME:

 

Two stroke is better then 4 stroke. It's simply quieter and isn't as smokey/nasty. I'd also GUESS they start easier. That said...they are heavier. Not sure on the longevity issue of the engines and all that (I think 2 stroke will last longer? Not sure)

 

We generally use them as approach vehicles. Tow you in the 5 or what ever miles to the slope and then skin/hike up the slope. if you have to...and if you use one to drag people up the hill, you're still gunna have to have someone ride it down, to pick the shredders up at the bottom.

 

This is generally the way me and two friends do it. We generally work with a group of three (ocasionally 4 or more)...with one snowmobile. Drag everyone to the top, one person rides the 'bile down to the pick up zone, the others ride their boards. Switch roles and repeat. It works out pretty well...on good days. On bad days (lot's of new snow (yes...that can be a bad thing, with a 'bile and lot's of people getting towed), machine trouble, etc) it can be a hassle. I generally work off the formula of for every four days of snowmobile riding I get...one is generally a throw away day of dealing with sled issues...from mechanical to getting it stuck a lot/road snowed in, etc.

 

We tow people this way: With people that are comfortable getting towed uphill (it IS different and takes getting used to) we run one rope off the back of the sled. We then tie a few loops in the rope and run old bike tube tires off of the loops. We take the bike tube tires and put them under our back pack waist bands to 'tie' ourselves to the sled. That way you're not holding on and burning your arms out getting pulled up the hill...you just have to 'relax' into your back pack and let the sled do the work. That said...make sure the driver isn't jerking you around with lot's of fast starts/stops and then braking, etc. Try and get them to be as smooth as possible...especially if there's a slight downhill to uphill. It takes time to figure the balance out....so the people towed aren't getting yanked hard, or they're not catching up and passing the sled. The old bike tubes help on the yanking part by stretching out the snap of the quick pull/start.

 

Killz is right with the two sleds is better then one...since then you've got a back up if problems arrise...but it's not essential. That said...be very mindfull of where you're going and all that. A sled will get you 20 miles back into the woods...and if you break down...with no good way to get out...that 20 miles gets to be a really long distance fast. You might want some sort of safety gear on trips like that...blanket/food/etc. Where we ride I can pretty much just ride back to the truck so it's not that big a deal...but it's important to know the terrain you'll be in so you can plan for break downs and what not. And beklieve me some more...just when you think it's all good and you don't need 'extra' stuff...you'll need it. Always carry taht stuff, since it's way better to have and not need then not have and need. I'd recommend having a split board...so you can always hike out it needed as well. And then you can hike UP stuff too...cause sleds won't be taking you everwhere...certainly not while dragging others...and believe me...your friends will want to go once they taste that smooth non-moguled up snow.

Yes.. 2 stroke makes the smoke. and the "braaaaaaaaap!" mixed oil required to lubricate as the engine runs.

 

        4 stroke  goes more like "thumpthumpthumpthump" oil is in the engine crankcase like an automobile.

 

2's are generally louder, but with after market exhausts and stuff, 4's can be pretty damn loud as well. I am sometimes found of the smell of 2 stroke. takes me back to teh  good old days of landscaping, when my biggest worry was keeping the lines in the lawn straight.

 

Again, I don't know snowmobiles, but I do know a little about small engines. 

 

 

Is there truth behind  one starting easier then tth other? I can see a four being easier due to no oil in the fuel and a lower flash point. Not sure about compression ratios and and spark temps. I have found cetain brands of engines just work and start better regardless of the number of strokes.

Posted by reachben
^think you got your strokes backwards

 

Yup. Opps....sorry about the typo.

 

4 stroke...basically a car/motorcycle engine.

2 stroke...basically a chain saw/snowblower/lawn mower engine.

 

They both have their advantages and disadvantages.

4 strokes got the gnarly loud boggy noise to em

and the 2strokes got the whiney noise.

4strokes are louder for sure. all day at a trackk you'll always here the 4's brappin around around. then you'll see a 2 stroker and it's not that loud.

don't ever waste your money on the 4 stroke sleds (yamaha). they don't work unless you dump an extra $10,000 into them.

the best cheap sled you can get is the 98 and 99 skidoo summit 670x. before 98 their high altitude compensator sucked. 98 they switched to dpm, and it made them awesome. they can use a few updates, (new skis and handlebar risers are essential, plus the seat is very low), but they are light, ultra reliable, and parts are cheap. here in bc you can pick one up for around $2500cdn.

 

the 99 polaris rmk 700 was good, but parts are expensive if you ever have to fix them. the early polaris 800's were garbage, and the used price will reflect that. they had it straightened out by 03 though. don't go near the arctic cats prior to 05. the yamaha 2 strokes of that era were good, but their tripple's (3cyl) were pigs on fuel.

 

the 00-03 skidoo zx chassis summits are awesome, but they are not without their problems. their top ends wear out quick. here is an article describing the problem, and the fix if you are willing to spend the money http://www.2strokeheads.com/tech6.htm

 

if you have a little more money to play with, the best bang for your buck used sled is the 05-06 arctic cat m7 efi with 153" track. they have wicked power, they go anywhere, and the motor is efficient and reliable. the seat is a little low, but its long which is great for doubling. they only require a couple inexpensive mods to make them work right. extra venting for the clutches is essential, and if you get one with the attack 20 track, it must be turned in the hillclimb position if you expect to go anywhere. thats about it. the efi makes them very easy to start, and they never get flooded like a carbed motor will. they are designed to run on 87 octane fuel, unlike all the others which require 91. there is also lots of aftermarket support for the m chassis cats if you like to tinker. i've seen these sleds for sale in anywhere from the $4000-$6500 range. the only thing i don't like about the m's is the fuel gauge. it reads empty once it reachs half a tank. it feels a little scary at first, but in reality there is always lots of fuel in there.

 

in general, track length determines how much terrain you can access. a short 136" track will get you into the backcountry sure, but its tough to double up the steep stuff. hard to keep the skis on the ground. and you wont be able to climb too high in the pow. thats not to say that a 136 wont work at all. if you are on a budget, a 136 track can be considered to be the bare minimum. in fact, if you get good with it you will be a better rider.

 

handlebar position is probably the most important issue to address on any sled. in most cases you need to raise your bars up, and pivot them forward. this gives you much more leverage for throwing the sled around, it allows you to stand straight up, and it centers your riding position closer to the front of the sled. being closer to the front gives you a smoother ride over the bumps, and it gives your passenger more seat to sit on. speaking of seats, a taller seat makes life easier for your legs because there is less travel distance when going from sitting to standing.

 

all sleds are hard on fuel, but unless you are riding more than a total of 100kms/60mi in a day, you should never need to pack extra fuel. the most i've ever done in one day was 117kms with still some to spare. average is more like 65-70kms

 

the 670x is the smallest motor that you should consider. other than that, you want a 700 or 800.

  

if you have any specific questions about specific sleds, don't hesitate to ask. i can most likely help you out.

That site is great!

Have to agree on the 05 M7, I picked up mine last year, has plenty of balls and with the track turned around it will climb the sh@t outta anything, not always fun coming back down with the track flipped, leaves the brakes pretty much useless.  Didn't know they ran on regular gas, I'll have to try that out.  Everyone I ride with has either a Mountain Cat or a New Summit and they are both wicked sleds, a little bit different handling but you'll get used to whatever you have.  You need to remember when comparing track sizes that AC has a narrower track than Sumiit does, so a 144 Summit is the same as a 153 Mountain Cat, its not just the leangth but the square inches of track that are in contact, and the Summit track is 1" wider given you the same area as the longer Mountain Cat track.  They are both priced similar and great sleds, I'd just see what you can get the best deal on, if you have cash there are some great deals at shops now due to banks not allowing financing anymore, I know w few people that have had to walk away from their deposits from last year because they don't qualify for financing anymore.

funny... looks like I might be doing some machine assist after all.

 

track width is a funny thing... sure, a 16"x144" track adds up to 2304" of surface area, which is slightly more than a 15"x153" coming in at 2295". according to the numbers it sounds like the 16x144 is the better track. BUT, this is where you have to pay close attention to the manufacturers wording when they say that their 16x144 "FLOATS" like a 15x153. they are very carefull not to say that their track "HILLCLIMBS" like a 15x153. the fact of the matter is that the longer your track is, the more stable you are in a climb. the shorter track sleds tend to lift the front end off the ground, as well as the front half of the track. you actually end up with much less track-on-snow contact, and a shitty attack angle with the front end up in the air. this trait of the shorter track is compounded even more if you have the extra weight of a passenger hitching a ride to the top of the mountain with his snowboard. it can almost be impossible to steer at times. now, if you compare a 15x153 to a 16x153, the extra width now actually does have an edge over the narrower track.

 

now, when you jump up from a track length in the 150's to a track length in the 160's, the difference in nose lift is very noticeable. the purpose for this added stability is for climbing very, very steep hills. however, people getting into sleds for the purpose of snowboarding will never double their friends up something so steep that they require the front end stability of a track length in the 160's.

 

the bottom line is this: a track length in the 140's will work for the backcountry, however it should be considered the bare minimum. however, its just a matter of time before you will be wishing for more track, TRUST ME. the track lengths in the 160's are great, but they are meant for the serious hillclimber that just likes to point and shoot. tossing the sled around, jumping, and playing are somewhat (and i stress somewhat) comprimized by the added stability. in my opinion you miss out on a lot of the fun by taking the playfullness out of the sled. what i recommend is the track lengths in the 150's. they have enough stability to get you and your buddies to the top of the best peaks, they can hillclimb with the big boys (or at least most of the big boys), they are still manouverable, and they arn't bad at hitting jumps. they also don't get stuck nearly as often as a  track in the 140's (which can be quite often).